Journal of the Instiution of Locomotive Engineers
Volume 17 (1927)

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Journal No. 78

Gass, E.M. (Paper No. 208)
The application of the compound principle to locomotives. 5-18. Disc.: 19-29.
Paper presented in Manchester on 29 October 1926 chaired by E.F. Lang (of Beyer Peacock). Based party on experience gained on LYR, but mainly a forward looking paper on the success of the French compounds from which Gass advocated higher boiler pressures (235 psi was being used in France); the use of piston valves for both high and low pressure cylinders; 1 1:2 volume ratio; Walschaerts valve gear with the inside cylinders activated via rocking shafts; and the use of automatic starting valves.: remarkably for the date an advocate of two-cylinder compounds.
Discussion: W. Rowland (LNER, Gorton 20-1): The Author gave 21½ins. as the maximum cylinder diameter allowed by load gauge restrictions, whether inside or outside the frames. This is not quite correct as regards inside cylinders, for these have been made up to 23ins. diameter for the low pressure engines of compound locomotives. For simple engines the limit of inside cylinder diameter is really determined by the boiler pressure and consequent piston load as it affects the crank axle. The distance between the frame on the ordinary 4ft. 8½in. gauge severely limits the thickness of the outer webs of the crank axle if adequate journal length is to be provided for the big ends and axleboxes, and it will be found that a piston load of 25 to 27 tons is the most that is consistent with a reasonable freedom from flaws at the junction of the axlebox journal and outer web of the crank axle. This gives a limit of under 21 for the mside cylinders of an engine with 180psi boiler pressure. It is better to limit the piston load to 25 tons and to increase the stroke for additional power, not only on account of crank axle strength, but for the sake of big end and axlebox loads. The author gave 31% of the boiler pressure as the maximum mean effective pressure available at a piston speed of 856 feet per minute, or 214 rpm with a 26in. stroke. Is this figure one at which the Author has arrived as the result of actual experiment, and if so, can he tell us whether the limiting factor was the failure of the boiler to provide more steam or the inability of the valves to get more into and out of the cylinders. The figure given is very closely in agreement with that published by the American Master Mechanics' Association. The Author says that the more uniform turning effort of the three-cylinder engine and the better balancing of the four-cylinder engine enable a lower factor of adhesion to be employed than when two cylinders are used. This is quite correct as regards three cylinders with cranks at 120° apart, but is far from the case with a three-cylinder compound engine with the low pressure cranks at 90° apart and the high pressure crank at 135° from each. Although the four-cylinder engine may usually have a smaller percentage of reciprocating balance weight than a two-cylinder engine, the speeds at which maximum tractive effort can be exerted are too low for variation of wheel load on this account to be very great. The real reason for the superiority of four cylinders to two in respect of adhesion is that its turning effort, though not so even as from three cranks at 120° is decidedly better than that of two at 90°. This is because the maximum effort of one crank due to connecting rod angularity is accompanied by a minimum of another. In other words, irregularities due to connecting rod angle cancel each other out to a great extent. This effect is greatest when all connecting rods are of the same length. Cylinder condensation would certainly be very great in a compound engine on account of the greater area of metal in contact with the steam, if it were not for the smaller temperature range in each cylinder and for the greater ratio of volume to surface in the low pressure cylinder. For the latter reason one large low pressure cylinder is the best arrangement as regards thermo-dynamic efficiency, and a two-cylinder compound is better than one with three or four cylinders. Unfortunately there are other considerations which render the two-cylinder design impracticable for high powers in this Country. Rowland agreed with the Author on the evil effect of compression, which is always a difficulty with the high pressure cylinder of a compound engine. It would not be so bad as it is but for the fact that the missing steam is practically a constant quality at any given speed, irrespective of the size of the indicator diagram. It is not possible without separate steam and exhaust valves to design a valve gear to give expansion without compression, and compression requires clearance space. Even if the steam be compressed only enough to just fill the clearance space at boiler pressure, the loss of work due to the process is considerably greater than the saving effected by retaining part of the exhaust steam.
J.W. Caldwell (Horwich): Gass mentions that initial condensation may be eliminated by correct superheating, that is if the steam is sufficiently super- heated to carry it dry to the point of exhaust. If this is the case then, why is it necessary to resort to compounding in a locomotive, as with correct superheat we can arrange for the steam to be dry at exhaust at any given ratio of expansion even in a simple engine. This would eliminate initial condensation, which is the only thing, as far as I can see, in which a « compound" can score over a « simple." The snag in this is that normal valve gears now in use will not operate at less than about 25 per cent. cut-off without giving excessive compression, etc. Given, then, a simple engine correctly superheated and fitted, say, with Caprotti valves, would it not be as good as a compound with less complication and be able to work with as high a ratio of expansion?
E. Mason (Agecroft}: Compounding had got a good hold in France at the cnd of the 19th century. The French engineers seem to have. overcome the trouble, which in England was apparently due to insufficient boiler power. .
With regard to the Author's remarks upon two simple arrangements for starting that have been in operation in this Country for some time, (a) seems to be the better, as it is foolproof. With regard to (b), it is to a certain extent dependent upon the human element, and I think that this has been the cause of the sometimes indifferent performances shown 'by the Midland three-cylinder compounds.
H.D. Atkinson (L.M.S. Manchester): Mr. Gass has not made any reference to increased piston stroke in relation to compound engines. Some remarks from him on this point would be of interest, in view of the practice adopted on the Great Western Railway on some of their simple engines in this direction.
The Author referred to the advantage gained by fitting release valves in piston valve heads as compared with early release. We have had experience of these release valves on the division of the railway I am connected with, and there is no doubt that they fulfil the purpose for which they were designed in overcoming the pressure on the cylinders, as the ball valve seating's get worn in time. It is very necessary to keep the small port holes in the piston valve heads clear, as there is a tendency for them to get carbonised and thereby prevent the ball valve working properly.
The Chairman (E.F. Lang 22): Mr. Gass's Paper constitutes a valuable contribution to the subject of the theory and practice of compounding in locomotives. History has a way of repeating itself, even in locomotive history, and this is due to the fact that circumstances alter values, and with a change in the former the latter alter also.
The era of cheap coal, in which the compound principle for locomotives was first adopted, provided but little scope for its extension, contrary to the expectations entertained following its successful application to land and marine practice. The reason for 'this was that the working con- ditions of railway traffic favoured, for the most part, simplicity in locomotive construction and rendered negligible the net resultant economy of the new principle. Nevertheless, the lesson of the past showed that it but required an era of increasing cost of coal to bring compounding- again into favour and it is safe, therefore, to prophesy that this increas- ingly unfavourable circumstance as regards cost of fuel will give that principle a further new value. Meanwhile the successful application of superheating to locomotives has overshadowed the older economy of the compound principle, but as it has, by now, been shown that the two principles work well in unison, it is probable that they will develop together towards the solution of the problem .of getting the maximum economy out of the piston locomotive, particularly now that this is threatened by the advent of the turbine principle in locomotive construction.
It is due to the greater simplicity of the two-cylinder compound, first indroduced by Mallet in 1876, that this type survived, whilst the three-cylinder compound as brought out by Mr. Webb did not. The two-cylinder compound introduced by Von Borries, on the Prussian State Railways, and Worsdell on the North Eastern Railway, in this Country, were undoubtedly successful, due mainly to the adoption of a practicable intercepting valve for accomplishing an automatic change from simple to compound working.
The firm of Beyer Peacock & Co. has built large numbers of two-cylinder compounds for the South American railways fitted with an intercepting valve, the outcome of a design simultaneously conceived by Von Borries and the late H. L. Lange. With regard to the question of volume ratios of high and low-pressure cylinders dealt with by Mr. Gass, I might mention that in the case of two lots of two- cylinder compound engines recently built by Beyer Peacock & Co., the one for the Buenos Ayres Western Railway and the other for the Central Argentine Rqilway, the cylinder ratios were as 1 to 2.095 and 1 to 2.25 respectively. The working conditions on the South American rail- ways as regards fuel, water, long distances, heavy .Ioads, slow speeds, are decidedly favourable to the compound principle. During the course of a tour in the United States in 1908, I formed the impression that there was but little use of the compound principle there, except in the case of the Mallet articulated locomotives. Doubtless cheap fuel and dear labour in this case outweighed the otherwise favourable conditions for compounding.
The question of speed is an important factor as regards compounding. Mr. Hughes' experiments on the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway plainly showed that the value of compounding largely depended on the range of temperatures in the cylinders. High piston speeds reduced the range in express work, even with early cut-offs, whereas those conditions did not exist in slow-running goods engines. Hence he reasoned that little value would accrue from compounding express passenger engines. On the other hand, Sir Henry Fowler on the Midland Railway was, at that time, getting most satisfactory and economical express passenger work out of compound locomotives: what then were the more potent factors in that case? With regard to the question of the relative economy of compounding and superheating, Mr. Hughes found that the superheater engine showed an economy over the compound engine if time element, together with coal and oil, are included after deductions were made for detentions, light engine shunting, etc., but when these detentions were included the compound was more economical than the superheater. This shows how difficult it is to generalise and how values alter accord- ing to the particular circumstances of the case as they prevailed in his and other experiments.
Mr. Gass refers to the high boiler pressures used in France. The general adoption of higher boiler pressures is another circumstance that would favour a greater use of compounding. Improved valves and valve gearing, along with the ever increasing demand for higher tractive power, have favoured the introduction of four-cylinder as well as new types of three-cylinder compounds. The first applica- tion of the Walschaert gear to a compound locomotive for Great Britain was made by Messrs. Beyer, Peacock & Co. for the Belfast and Northern Counties Railways in 1890. To take advantage of the full inside distance between the frames, the steam chests were placed above the cylinders . and Joy's valve gear was suggested to meet this arrange- ment. Mr. Lange, however, did not like this type of gear and proposed the Walschaert instead.
I would like in conclusion to draw attention to the Author's figure of about 12 per cent. as the general saving effected by compounding. Would not 15 per cent. be a more general figure?
The Author: Respecting Mr. Haig hs remarks that one of my statements contradicts another, may I say that the locomoti ves referred to earlier are not the same as those considered later.
The first is tile cornparision between a two-cylinder single expansion locomotive and a two-cylinder "Worsdell Von-Borries " compound, both types having the same trac- tive power, whereas the later statement refers to the perform- ance of a four-cylinder superheater single expansion locomoti ve and a four-cylinder superheater compound; these two engines were also of equal capacity.
The " Worsdell Von-Borries " compound cost approximately £200 more to build than the single expansion engine. These two engines were put into service to haul 'similar trains at the same booked speeds, and after being carefully watched [or several months, and records taken, the compound showed a saving in coal consumption of 6 per cent. Assuming 600 tons as the average annual coal consumption per locomotive, the saving at 7/- per ton is £12 12S. 0d. per annum, which was considered insufficient to cover the interest ori the extra capital outlay involved. Regarding the later statement, in France where exhaus- tive tests have been carried out and careful records compiled of the engines over several months' service, the four-cylinder superheater compound showed an economy in coal consumed of 12 per cent. as compared with a four-cylinder superheater single expansion locomotive of similar power. Taking the present price of coal at 17/6 per ton and the annual consumption at 600 tons, the financial saving is £65 12S. 6d. per annum, which amply covers the extra one per cent. cost of maintenance. I am informed .that the four-cylinder compound locomotive with only two sets of valve gear cost practically the same to build as the four-cylinder single expansion engine.
Reference to the remark that extra power has to be sought by compounding, I am of the opinion that nothing can be gained in respect to enhancing power by the application of the double expansion principle. The high pressure cylinder of a maximum capacity compound loco- motive must be placed outside the frames, and these cylinders (owing to load gauge restrictions) cannot be larger than those of a single expansion locomotive. By referring to the tractive power curves shown, in Fig. -8, 'it will be seen that the power of the compound at various speeds is but little in excess of that of the single expansion engine.

Beaumont, J.W. (Paper No. 209)
The working of light traffic on railways and the "Sentinel" engine. 30-53. Disc.: 53-9; 273-80 + folding plate. 2 illus., 3 diagrs.
A description of the Sentinel locomotives and railcars, plus experience gained from service on the LNER.
The boiler, first designed for road use, was made with sets of cross tubes round a central firing chute, but later spirally set tubes were adopted, set in spiral corrugations in the firebox shell, and this gave good results. Fig. 1 on page 41 shows an "exploded view" and the exterior. Both the boiler shell and the firehox are cylindrical, there being no flat surfaces requiring stays with their attendant troubles. The steep inclination of the tubes promotes a rapid and thorough circulation of the water, whilst being water not fire tubes, their ends are not subject to flame corrosion and their life is prolonged accordingly. Firing is via a central chute, its outer end being in the boiler cover (the boiler is not weakened by a firehole door). Firing involved shovelling a small quantity of coal from time to time into an aperture some 8in. in diameter, using a coal scoop little larger than that used on a domestic hearth, a grate with a slightly conical centre distributing the fuel to the outer circumference of the firebox. In the space above the tubes lies the superheater coil which raises the steam temperature to about 600F before its discharge through the regulator valve. The firebox is flanged top and bottom and bolted to the boiler shell with two rows of studs. When the joints are loosened off the whole of the firebox with its tubes could be dropped right out of the boiler, exposing every siirface to be scraped, whilst the straight, short tubes could be thoroughly and quickly cleaned. The whole job had been done in six hours. Similar boilers were still in use on road wagons after 15 to 20 years in service.  Due to the rapid circulation tbe time to raise steam was reduced to about 45 minutes without forcing. It was capable of an output of 2,000 lbs. of steam per hour at a pressure of 275 psi on a consumption rate of 9 lbs. of steam per pound of coal..
Steam distribution in the engine was via tappet valves actuated by a cam shaft. The steam enters and leaves the cylinders by entirely separate ports controlled by valves of the mushroom type, absolutely steam tight when closed, and capable of being removed and re-ground, when necessary, in a very short space of time. They are operated by push rods from a cam shaft, which are easily adjustable in a similar way to an internal combustion engine, a gauge for such adjustment being provided. Tlie cam shafts are wholly enclosed in the crank case driven from the crank shaft through a two to one gear, into which they are splined so as to provide for a sliding movement lengthwise controlled by an outside lever. This sliding movement brings the various cams into gear with the push rods and provides five positions. For starting and for very heavy work over short distances a steam cut-off of 80 per cent. is used; for ordinary running a cut-off of 30 per cent., and these are duplicated for forward or reverse, it being quite immaterial as far as efficiency is concerned whether the locomotive runs backwards or forwards. A central or neutral position is also provided, when all valves are open and steam can be blown through for warming up before starting. A feed water pump is also run off the crank shaft which forces an ample supply of water through a heater, heated by exhaust steam.
Power was transmitted to the wheels through chains, usually of 1¼in. pitch, the driving sprockets being keyed on to each end of the crank shaft, and on most types each chain drove on to a separate axle, avoiding the necessity of using coupling rods.
There were central engine, balanced engine and double engine types. Double geared versions were available..
The locomotive technology was also applied to steam railcars with the bodywork being supplied by Cammell Laird. Initially these had horizontal engines, but it was found that vertical engines worked better. At the time the Paper was presented the LNER had a Sentinel railcar working between Norwich and Lowestoft. Beaumont cited part of Sir Ralph Wedgwood's Presidential Adsress to the Railway Student's Association in which he stated, after noting the use of autocar (push & pull trains),:"experiments which give promise ol being much more successful have been made with petrol cars, and with the “Sentinel” steam car. Experience with the latter car seems to indicate that we may look for considerable economies by the adoption of this unit. Running cost has been found to range about 30 per cent. of that of the ordinary steam train.” adding later: “Where the service can be intensified by the use of such small units the railway seems likely to maintain its position very effectively against competing road services and to recover niuch of the ground which has already been lost. ” A fuller report appeared in Modern Transport, 1926, 30 October..
The LNER had lent their dynomometer car for tests of a Sentinel locomotive working on the Derwent Valley Railway.
Discussion: Stoker (53-4); J.H. Haigh (LMS, 54) asked about braking on the engine; scale removal and axle movement. E.M. Gass (54-5) was critical and gave figures comparing the fuel consumption of large with small locomotives when hauling freight. He stated that the Stumpf Uniflow engine was similar to the Sentinel type. J. Blundell (LNER 55-6). H.D. Atkinson (LMS 56). W. Rowland (LNER, Gorton, 56-7). J.E. Turner (LMS, 57).
E. Alcock (273-5) asked about chain maintenance and life and whether gears could be changed whilst the vehicle was moving, and was informed that on the Egyptian Delta Railway chains were removed and cleaned in paraffin once per month and any slack was adjusted at that time. Gears could not be changed whilst a vehicle was in motion.
G.A. Musgrave (275-7) asked several questions concerning and the authors' responses were: the standard brake fitted is a steam brake and that is combined with a hand brake, the Westinghouse brake has been fitted to one recently shipped to Newfoundland, also to one supplied to the North Eastern Railway; and several have been fitted with vacuum brake, but the steam brake is quite sufficient to skid the wheels. Another brake turned the engine itself into a brake: a release valve enabled the engine to be put into reverse gear whilst the locomotive was running forward; the engine being driven pumped air, with the release valve ensuring that the pressure did not become too great. This was used on lorries and formed a very reliable brake down hill, but was not recommended for continual use. At that time the largest engine was 100 h.p.and more power was envisaged by using them in multiple:an articulated locomotive was envisaged, although back to back locomotive was already in existence. The valves were steel, and many were stainless steel. The seatings were not removable, and the seating on which they fitted was part of the engine casting. The jointing material for the boiler was practically any thin material. The frequency of firebox taking down depended on water quality: with good water, once in six months, but it should never be allowed to go beyond that. One taken down in South Wales had been working over twelve months, but there was really not very much dirt in it. The tubes are rolled into the tubeplate in the ordinary way. The boilers are fitted with steel tubes and steel fireboxes. The life of the firebox depended on the water quality. There had a good many instances of ten years life, and should last not less than seven or eight years, unless of course the water was very bad indeed. With lorries the outer shell of the boiler lasted twice that long. At that time the chain drive was judged to be most efficient, but gear drive had some advantages, especially for driving rail coaches where it was possible to place the engine nearer to the wheels. The Author very much prefered the chains, as there were very few breakages, inspite being  violently. If a chain broke it simply dropped off and could be readily replaced or another link put in to repair it, whereas a broken gear may do a lot of other damage. Whoever adjusts the chain must as far as possible trammel the two radius rods and make both sides equal; they should be trammelled, and that is not a dificult joh.
H.J. Stephenson (278-9) noted that problems had been experienced with the 75 hp railcar which had been exhibted at the Wembley Exhibition when placed in service on a branch line near Newcastle with 1 in 70 gradients and heavy passenger traffic where it suffered a broken chain, braking and lighting:problems: "it was hardly up to the requirements of the task". He was also critical of a Sentinel shunting locomotive used in the yards at York for its lack of power and speed and wondered whether the valves would last. .
Pooley (279): wished to know if water could be excluded from the oil case and the type of  packings used for the main piston valves. The Author stated that a special flexible packing is used, not metallic. Between the cylinder and the top of the crank case there is another open casting, so that there is a gland from the piston into this casting and there is another stuffing box out of that casting into the crank case. Any water ran over in that space.
C.F. Adams (LNER, Doncaster, 279): noted that the chain drive was entirely exposed to dust and weather conditions. The Author replied a casing for the protection of the chain drive from dust was designed and fitted for the railcars on for the Egyptian Delta Light Railway. Experience of chain driven lorries provided with an oil retaining bath showed that dirt got into this oil bath and and increased chain wear. On the speed diagram he noticed the rail motor coaches attained a speed of 40 miles per hour and wished to know the greatest distance they could run at that speed. The Author replied indefinitely at this speed. It is quite within their capacity on any level road.
J.H. Bartram stated the boilers are so standardised that they could not be altered and how could they cope with very low grade fuel. The reply was that there were larger boilers for inferior  and different boilers for wood and oil burning.

Stamp, N.H. (Paper 210)
Locomotive wheel balancing. 60-71. Disc.: 71-7. 5 diagrs.
Need for locomotive wheel balancing
Unbalanced revolving mass produces
variation in rail pressure and
variation in the axlehox pressure.
Unbalanced reciprocating mass leads to:
acceleration—both negative and positive to direction of travel.
oscillatory motion about a vertical axis— nosing — swaying dangerous at high speeds
slight vertical oscillation, which disappears if height of the line of traction is equal to the radius of the driving wheel
Includes (pp. 70-1) details of Gresley's balancing of three-cylinder locomotives; notes on the wheel balancing machine and hammer blow..
Discussion: C. Gribble (71-3) of the Bridge Stree Committee H.E. Dean (Hunslet, 73-4) noted that in the Lord Nelson type the proportion of the reciprocating masses balanced is only 40%
H. Smith (74) the Great Northern Railway balance weights were segments almost rectangular in shape. A former locomotive superintendent, when riding on the footplate between Doncaster and Peterborough on an express asked the driver for the cause of the unsteady motion of the engine, and the driver replied that the movement must be transmitted through the valves. The superintendent expressed the opinion that it was because the balance weights were rectangular instead of crescent shape. Once when riding in an express from Grantham to Nottingham, drawn by a 2-4-0 type engine, the positive and negative acceleration were very pronounced, although he was in the centre portion of the train. As he had ridden behind the same class many times when there was no unsteadiness, he put it down to the setting of the valves, especially as the unsteadiness ceased when the regulator was closed. There used to be about ten 0-4-2 type tender engines at Copley Hill, working the branch passenger traffic, and there was only one of them that caused unsteadiness to the train. Having ridden innumerable times between Leeds and Bramley, he noticed that when this particular engine was drawing the train, that imniediately it got clear of Armley Cutting and with speed increasing, that the unsteadiness in the train commenced, and it was quite pronounced, especially in the first coach, but ceased immediately the regulator was closed. These engines had the rectangular shape of balance weight C.F. Adam (LNER): The difficulty of balancing locomotives in the reciprocating weight ; if this weight is entirely balanced in the wheels, excessive hammer blow is set up. On the other hand, if the reciprocating weight is ignored oscillations are set up which become dangerous when travelling at high speed. To overcome these difficulties only a proportion of the reciprocating weight is balanced which varies with different designs: in the new 4-6-0 four-cylinder engine of the Southern Railway only 40 per cent. of the reciprocating weight is balanced – 10% in the leading wheels, 20% in the intermediate wheels and 10% in the trailing wheels, whereas in the LNER 4-6-2 three-cylinder engines 60% is balanced, that of the inside cylinder being combined in the driving wheels, and of the outside cylinders, the weights are distributed equally in the coupled wheels. Here we have two modern engines in which the proportions and distribution differ.

Geer, H.E. (Paper 211)
Modern locomotive superheating. Part 2. 79-100. Disc. 100-32.
Covers tangential steam driers. Fig. 7 Chambers front end throttle. Fig. 8 Schmidt and Wagner regulator and header arrangement In Britain few applications have been made, but the Hull and Barnsley Railway in 1913 or 1914 fitted a few engines with a regulator combined with the superheated side of the header. Blowers situated in the firebox included the Parry and the Diamond types: A Diamond blower was fitted to the Maunsell Lord Nelson class. Discussion: Mr. O. Bulleid (LNER: 106): The point the Author makes about the erosion of the superheater elements is of great importance. We have had considerable experience with superheating' and we find that the replacing of the superheater elements is not due to the burning out of the spear end, but to erosion at the entrance of the steam into the superheater elements: this action very marked; the ends of the tubes at the joint have been found on examination to be so badly eaten away as to require the replacing of the elements, The other reason why these elements are replaced is owing to mechanical damage, These elements require to be loosened by a hammer or other means and are frequently seriously damaged. The replacement of elements is consequently not entirely the result of the action of the heat. As regards the blower question, we have a number of engines so fitted, some with the Parry and some with the Diamond, and they are very efficient so far as keeping the tubes clean. It remains to be seen if the men will make proper use of them, and trouble has been experienced by the nozzle end burning. So far as the other question of higher steam heat is concerned, Mr. Geer has omitted to tell us how we are going to obtain this. We should be interested to hear how to obtain a superheat of 1000°. With regard to_the poppet valve regulator, our experience is such as to make us think that the poppet valve is a very attractive proposition for that purpose. I do not think we should like to trust to the regulator being at the superheater end of the header; there is a certain amount of danger in not being able to shut off the steam from the header. As regards wetness in steam, this is very difficult to overcome. Two engines have been fitted with dryers, and it was impossible to determine that there was any appreci- able improvement in the quality or the steam, so much so that the dryers have been taken off.
J. Clayton (Southern Rly 107-8): The Tompkins' tangential dryer (Fig. 5) which the Southern Railway, like the LNER, tried in service on one of its locomotives was fitted to a standard 2-6-0 engine in 1923, and while it is difficult to know how to measure the utility of such devices, careful observation of pistons and valves at the periodical examination failed to reveal any marked difference either in the presence of carbon deposit, in ports and passages, or as regards wear of the parts when compared with those of similar engines not so fitted. The drivers did not report any difference in the working of the engine, and in addition no advantage in coal consumption or superheat could be found. The device was removed after being fitted about three years. On the Southern Railway we also tried a type of steam dryer known as the Ulrici, of Italian design. This also was fitted in the dome, the regulator being in the smokebox, but here again no marked advantage in the use of the apparatus could be found. The necessity for obtaining steam as dry as possible, especially where a superheater is fitted, is recognised by all locomotive engineers, and consequently it is good practice wherever possible to make the distance between the top of the inside firebox and the outer shell of ample dimension. Many years ago, in his valuable paper before the Institution of Mechanical Engineers on locomotive boilers, Churchward, late of the Great Western Railway, expressed the opinion that no boiler should be made with this dimension less than 2 ft., which is an excellent practice, and one which the Southern Railway has in all its new designs endeavoured to follow. With regard to elements, we have also found the same trouble to which  Bulleid referred, namely, that the elements do not burn out, as might be expected, chiefly at the spear end, but at the bend in the smokebox on the saturated leg of the element. These are re-ended when they become thin, by electric welding on a new portion. It appears to be caused by corrosion set up by the moisture, brought over with the steam, assisted by the air which is drawn in through the relief valves on the header. With regard to the soot blower used from the firebox end, we have had a certain amount of experience with the type known as the Diamond soot blower (Fig. 2), and so far with satisfactory results. When this blower was Bulleid referred to the erosion that occurs in the superheat elements, and I think it is more marked in the centre tubes than in the end ones, that is, the water takes the shortest path and is carried in three or four middle tubes, whereas the outer ones get little or none of it. The cutting action is no doubt assisted by solid particles carried over with the water. With regard to the size 0.£ the steam space in the boiler, that is a matter of importance in shunting and suburban traffic working, etc., but in express engines it is not so important as water area; that is to say, a large free area is needed for the steam bubbles to escape quietly from the water surface, and for that reason there is a great advantage in the Belpaire firebox, because the water surface in the boiler is ycry littl« affected by the height of the water line. - first fitted to onc of our engines it was found after a short time that the valves were choked with carbon deposit and the wear resulting was very marked. This was attributed to the fact that the drivers were using the soot blower when the engine was coasting without steam, and as the soot and deposits were blown through the tubes into the smokebox they were sucked down the blast pipe, with the result stated. The makers' attention was drawn to the matter and they suggested that a notice should be exhibited near the fitting stating that it must only be used with the regulator well open, and the engine working heavily. Since this precaution was adopted no trouble has been experienced. The multiple-valve regulator illustrated by Fig. 9 appears to have a defect, and I suggest it would be better if the valves were positively fixed to the levers actuating them, rather than relying on cam movement, and so avoid any risk of the valves remaining open after the regulator handle had been placed in the shut position. Mr. Poultney referred to 30- square feet of grate area as being about the most that could be obtained between the wheels on the normal gauge of 4ft. 8½in. It may be noted, however, that the engine Lord Nelson of the Southern Railway has 33ft2 grate with its firebox arranged between the frames.
H. Holcroft (Southern Rly: 108-9): had practical experience of the two types of dryers referred to, but have not been able to discover anything in the way of an increase of superheat or a decrease of water consumption from their use. Although it is often said that the water level should be carried as low as possible on superheater engines, in order to get a higher superheat, I have never been able to find a case in which the superheat varied with the level of the water. That is probably due to the fact that nearly all my experience has been with boilers having Belpaire fireboxes. I have also had some practical experience with the soot blower fitted to the Lord Nelson, and not only is it yery effective in cleaning the tubes, but it clears the top of the brick arch of all dirt and cinders, and also cleans the surface of the tubeplate, besides a large area of the firebox walls. On oil-fuel engines it is quitc a usual thing to get a shovel of dry sand and tip it in the firehole in order to clear the tubes of soot, but our drivers will only do this as a last resource, as they say that the sand fuses ancl accumulates round the tubeholes and on the return bends. Can the Author explain why it is that some of the most economical engines in this country are those running on the Great Westcrn, which have comparatively low super- heat, the steam temperature being little more than 500°F. ? In view of the Author's claims for the advantage to be gained by a high degree of superheat, it would be interesting to know how these engines get their high economy.

Journal No. 79

Rowland, W.
The most economical point of cut-off of locomotive valve gears. 134-42, 2 diagrs.
Discussion meeting introduced by W. Rowland of Gorton. Other participants: J.H. Haigh (LMS, former LYR, 139);

Brunler, O. (Paper No. 212)
The internal combustion boiler and its application to the locomotive. 143-56. Disc.: 156-70.
Paper presented in London on 14 January 1927 chaired by H. Kelway Bamber
The following summary was published in the Locomotive Mag., 1927, 33, 52: After commenting on the necessity for engineers to find some more effective means of applying and utilising the heat generated from fuel in locomotives, the author proceeded to describe and illustrate an internal combustion boiler, the fundamental principle of which is the kindling and maintenance of a flame burning in water, in order to produce steam for power or heating purposes. For locomotive fuel to be utilised in this manner, liquid or powdered solid was recommended.
In order to explain the operation of the boiler, a cross-section of it was shown. Combustion is started in the boiler by means of a pilot lamp. Fuel oil and the air for combustion are supplied to the pilot lamp and to the main burner under a pressure which barely exceeds the boiler pressure. Before starting, the water level in the steam generator is lowered below the lower outlet of the burner. The cover of the pilot lamp is removed and the fire-clay lining in the pilot lamp is heated up to red heat by means of a blow lamp, or any other suitable method. The valves of the pilot lamp are opened, and the combustible mixture of oil and air ignites on the red-hot fireclay. Then the cover is pulled down again and the flame of the pilot lamp makes its way to the main burner. After a few minutes, when the burner is hot enough to vaporise the oil, the main regulating valve is opened, and the flame bums in the steam generator. As soon as the main flame bums on the surface of the water in the generator, the valve of the water reservoir is opened and the water rises up to the middle of the burner, and the flame then burns in the water, as shown in the diagram. A photograph of the flame actually burning in the water was shown by the lecturer.
By means of a superheater designed on the san:e principle as the pilot lamp, and whose flame burns in the steam reservoir or in the steam pipe, the steam can be superheated to any required degree.
The size of the flame, and, consequently, the quantity of steam produced, can be increased or decreased by turning one wheel only. As this. regulates the combustible mixture with a fixed ratio, It is impossible for the combustion to be altered through mistakes of an operator; once the regulating valve is properly set the combustion is always complete.
The flame temperature at the burner outlet is, approximately, 1,800° to 2,000°C. Since carbon monoxide bums to carbon dioxide at a temperature above 800°C., it is evident that at the high flame temperature of about 2,000°C. all the carbon monoxide is converted into carbon dioxide. The steam-gas mixture which has been frequently analysed has never been found to contain carbon monoxide. This shows that fuel can be burnt more completely in water than in the open. The combustion under pressure brings the molecules of the fuel into better contact with the oxygen of the combustion air; therefore, under pressure, and in water, a perfect combustion can be obtained. Due to the very high flame temperature, the water surrounding the former evaporates instantly. It is evident that after a few minutes the required steam pressure can be obtained. As a rule, a boiler pressure of 170 lb. per sq. in. is reached in practice within six minutes after the flame is submerged m the water.
The gases produced during combustion consist of nitrogen, carbon dioxide and slight traces of oxygen (about ,05 to .03 kg. per kilo. of oil burnt), and are mixed with the steam forming a steam-gas mixture, which consists of about 50 per cent. of steam and 50 per cent. of gases, according to the fuel used, the ratio of steam and gas varying slightly. The followmg is a typical analysis of the composition of the steam-gas mixture:
Carbonic acid 3·6 kg. (1·8m3)
Oxygen  0·04 kg. (.04m3)
Nitrogen 12·91 kg. (10.2m3)
Steam  15·1 kg. (19.5m3)
This steam-gas mixture consists of the same gases which are produced in gas and oil engines, the only difference being that in these engines the amount of steam in the combustion gases is much less. The specific heat of the steam-gas mixture is low, and a mixture of steam and gas has an extremely high power of expansion. Consequently, the highest efficiency is obtainable from a highly superheated steam-gas mixture.
In the discussion section the author noted the first experiments to burn fire in water were made in 1887 by his father. In 1898 he succeeded in designing a steam generator which worked for six hours without breakdown. The greatest difficulty was always the burner, and it took his father 25 years.

Poultney, E.C. (Paper No. 213)
Locomotive performance and its influence upon modern practice. 172-261. Disc.: 261-72.
Paper presented in London on 27 January 1927 chaired by H. Kelway Bamber
The influence of weight on the ultimate power available is considered:
Anything that raises the indicated tractive effort curve for any given boiler, increases pull at the tender. This would mean improved engine performance. Valve gears, cylinder proportions, compounding, and other modifications leading to a better use of steam, tend in this direction.
Anything which improves boiler output for given engine conditions also raises the traction curve. The superheater, feed heater and the firebox with its grate deserve attention, but proportions of tube length to diameter and other features covering combustion air supply are also important
Anything which decreases machine friction at a given power output raises the tender dran-bar pull curve.
Anything that lowers locomotivc weight for a given capacity is important. It also means a higher net pull.
Anything that lowers rolling and head air resistances is deserving of attention.

Journal No. 80

Symes, S.J.
Mass production as applied to the repairing of locomotives. 286-300.
A discussion meeting led by Symes. Conditions required for mass production. Firstly, necessity for considerable demand for articles required or work to be performed, and these must be uniform in character. Operations are systematically split into sections which are worked progressively: greater production and better quality can be obtained from men allocated to each operation, and it is possible to provide equipment particularly adapted to each section, which will facilitate production in making it much simpler and easier for the men to carry out the various operations. When applied to locomotive repairs: there is production of the many parts needed to replace worn out components; then repairs to details to be used again; and the assembly or erection of these parts.
Discussion: W. Rowland (297) did not agree with Symes' asertion that the number of locomotive types would diminish. Cylinders could he made practically everlasting by the use of bushes for the cylinder barrel as well as for the steamchest, and the same principle could be carried out for other parts, though it does not touch the very large question of boiler and firebox repairs, nor of such details as axles and piston rods which ran only be maintained by successive size reduction.

Sanders, T.H. (Paper No. 214)
Railvay springs. 301-35. Disc.: 439-51
Paper presented in London on 24 February 1927 chaired by F. Turner
Three schools of railway practice: British, Continental, and American. Each provided distinctive features. The British school used very largely laminated springs for all classes of rolling stock, and was unique in still using coiled springs on locomotives, and rubber auxiliary springs for locomotives and coaching stock. The Continental school used plate springs almost exclusively for locomotives, and passenger and freight vehicles, and did not include rubber for auxiIiaries. The American school used, with rare exceptions, none but laminated springs for locomotives and largely laminated springs for passenger cars. Other neccesary springs for the latter were invariably of the helical type, aiid this pattern is almost standard for freight cars.
Discussion: J. Clayton (328-30) noted that the reference to copper back plates for springs was a surprise especially when such plates had been used on the  South Eastern Railway, The Author considered the application of  varying thicknesses of plates used to compose a spring as bad practice, but he had some instances where cases of spring failure appeared to reduce through the use of various thicknesses of plates. Ribbed section steel  was used almost wholly for springs on the Southern Railway, and for many years on the South Eastern and Chatham Railway before the amalgamation, with very excellent results. Such springs keep their shape far better than springs niade of plain flat steel. Saunders was emphatic that plates should always be nibbed downwards, but the Southern Railway had many springs nibbed upwards with good results, but in these cases the working load of the spring is applied with the spring plates horizontal, and in such cases the nib is probably better up than down. The Woodhead type of back plate is interesting, and 1 should like to ask if these springs have been used to any extent and whether they have been used by any railway company, as it is certainly very ingenious and offers a promising solution of some difficulties. The gib cotter end is referred to as being possibly the best method of dealing with the attachment of the springs to the links, but the method shown of pressing the end from the plate is not so good as making this solid, as pointed out by Finlayson, or alternatively by a loose washer with the nib made solid from it. The question of fatigue cracks raised by the Author is a very interesting one, and when speaking to a Sheffield manufacturer a short time ago I raised the point of why to-day the mortality of springs seems to be so high as compared with formerly. It was observed by the manufacturer referred to that in other days spring steel was made by the Bessemer process in which the impurities were much greater than in the acid process, and the explanation offered was that these cracks which developed in the surface when tempering the plate travelled down into the metal until they met an inclusion and there stopped. I had hoped that the Author would refer to the question of the span of springs, and which has an important bearing npon the results obtained. It is agreed to-day that the springs having a good span last and give much better results, both in ridiag and in life, and perhaps the Author would give us his opinion in that respect. M'ith reference to auxiliary rubber pads, these are now being fitted by the Southern Railway, and we find that they improve the life of the springs very considerably.

Metcalfe, J.C. (Paper No. 215)
The exhaust steam injector. 355-80. Disc.: 380-90; 453-65.
Advantages claimed for exhaust steam injector:

E.M. Gass (381-2) gave some indication of the costs involved in fitting exhaust steam injectors to LYR locomotives and argued that these exceeded the potential savings, partly due to the footplate crews using the live steam injectors in preference: neverheless he conceded that they were more economic than pump-type water heaters. J.H. Haigh (382) considered that there must have been great improvements since the unsatisfactory trial on the LYR as the considerable use of such injectors on the GWR was "a certain indication that some economy is obtained, but it is surprising that if this economy reaches as much as 10 per cent. so few are in use on other English railway systems". E. Colclough.(GWR, 382-3) supported the claims made in the paper, both in terms of ease of fitting, that oil did not enter the boiler, and the economy was achieved. Also received support from G.H.H. Collins (383) of GWR who noted that towelling was no longer used in the grease separator..

H.B. Oatley, a Vice-President of the Superheater Company in the USA, noted how the exhaust steam injector was being taken up in the USA.

Bell, A.M. (Paper No. 216)
Tare and load compared in modern locomotives and rolling stock. 398-422. Disc.: 422-38. 13 illus., 2 diagrs., 2 tables.
Presented in London on 31 March 1927: Sir Seymour Tritton chaired the Meeting.
In the diagram (Fig. 1: Stockton & Darlington Railwat) Locomotion's train (including engine and tender) weighed 66½ tons, and carried 80 tons of coal, or exactly in the proportion of 1.2 times the tare. According to Wishaw the SDR had wagons carrying 53cwts. and taring 27-30cwts. each. A train of these gives much better ratios, or 1 to 1.8.
Referring to Fig 2 (LNER P1 class 2-8-2) representing a train of 1926 960 tons of coal required 750 tons of tare, which is in very similar proportion of 1 to 1.3. A third diagram shows a train for the standard gauge, brought up to a similar standard to those running in India on the same work, namely, coal transport; and here we see that with 534 tons of tare 968 tons of coal can be accommodated, or there exists a ratio of 1 to 1.8.
Discussion:.C.E. Willoiams (427) considered yjat the twin Sentinel-Cammell railcar was a good example of light vehicles and pfroblem for most railway vehicles was the incorporation of buffing resistance.. H. Holcroft (428): weight saving could be achieved bby increasing the capcity of the vehicles, or by reducing their tare weight 

Visit to the works of the Leeds Forge Co., Ltd., 27th April,1927. 474-5.
Party of membcrs of the North-Eastern Centre visited the Armley Road Works on Wednesday afternoon, 27 April, These works are chiefly employed in the manufacture of railway rolling stock, carriages and wagons, and Fox’s patent corrugated steel flues for the boilers of steamships. The works are extensive, modern, well laid out and organised with the view of promoting the continuous flow of the raw material, from its entrance at one side, through all its processes, until it emerges at the other side as the finished article ready for despatch. The large shops devoted to wagons and frames consist of 14 bays and cover 1.4 acres, and are very well equipped with travelling cranes for the quick handling of all parts and the saving of manual labour. A notable feature was the cleanliness and tidiness of the whole place. The party was first taken to the steel plate mill, which is driven by a powerful reversing steam engine. Here they witnessed the rolling down of 7-ton ingots of steel into slabs and plates of different sizes, for use in making boiler flues and the pressed parts of wagon and carriage frames. Proceeding to the test house they saw the method of testing pieces representing each batch of plates-by tensile tests on a Buckton testing machine, etc., and the recording of the results for future reference. Following up the manufacture of the Fox flues, they were next shown the rolling of the plate into a tube, the welding up of the longitudinal seam in a welding machine using water gas, the rolling in of the corrugations, flanging the ends, the grinding and dressing off, etc., when the flue was ready for despatch to the boiler makers. These works are famous as the birthplace of the pressed steel frames for wagons and carriages and as the home in which the system has reached its highest development.

Visit to the works of the Vulcan Foundry, Newton-Le-Willows, 8th April, 1927. 475-6
Party of members of the Manchester Centre visited the locomotive works on Friday, 8 April, 1927. The party travelled by the 1.0 p.m. train from Exchange Station, Manchester, to Earlstown Junction, a saloon having been engagcd for their accommodation. On arrival at the works at 1.45 p.m., the party lvere welcomed by Mr. S.F. Whalley, General Manager and by Mr. Lane, Works Manager, who, together with other members of the staff,. personally conducted the members round the works. Much interest was displayed in the three-cylinder compound engines which were being built for the LMS. There was evidence on every side of up-to-date methods of manufacture and good workmanship. The shops are lofty, well ventilated and clean. .

Visit to Doncaster Plant Works, 14th June, 1927.  476-8.
Party of 150 members of the Institution visited Doncaster Plant Works on Tuesday, 14 June: the visitors, including some foreign members, travelled from London in three first-class dining cars attached to the 10.10 a.m. train from King’s Cross. They were joined at Doncaster by large contingents from the Manchester and North-Eastern Centres, and were conducted round the works in parties of ten by the President and Messrs. F. Wintour (Assistant Mechanical Engineer, Southern Area), F.H. Eggleshaw (Works Manager), G.A. Musgrave (Assistant Works hlanager), W. Elwess (Chief Draughtsman), R.A. Thom (Mechanical Engineer, Scottish Area), A.H. Peppercorn (Carriage Works Manager), W.H. Brown (Wagon Works Manager), and by members of the drawing office and supervisory staffs. Group photograph in front of Pacific Robert the Devil.

Journal 81

Falconer, P.L. (Paper No. 217)
The cylinder performance of cross-compound locomotives. 496-524. Disc.: 525-36. 6 illus., 16 diagrs. 3 tables
The six illus. (photographs) are of FCCA locomotives, most being compounds. M.F. Ryan (525-7) suggested that probably nohody did more harm to, the development of compound locomotives than F.W. Webb of the old LNWR. He produced an engine which clearly was not up to its, work, and was very opposed to making any change. In the Argentine conditions are rather different to those obtaining in England: there are long hauls at fairly low speeds, and passenger trains get long continuous runs. It would seem that the country is eminently suited for compound work, but many of the railways have been afraid to adopt them. The difficulty has been that very few railways have got what one might call a technical running staff.

Smeddle, R.A. (Paper No. 218)
Some notes on locomotive fittings. 537-46. Disc.: 546-52
Presented in Glasgow on 27 January 1927, chaired by D.C. Urie.
Covers a select number of fittings to encourage discussion: coupled wheel axleboxes: cast steel, forged stccl or brass or brass and gun metal boxes. The initial cost of last was high, although partly balanced by lower machining and fitting costs
Keeps, lubriacation, horns, journals formed another topic.
Reversing gears: lever type more suited to shunting; screw type for passenger work. Combined screw and lever offered some of the features from both. Steam reversing was also considered: one railway company who fitted steam reversing gears found them so satisfactory that they took their emergency hand arrangement off altogether, leaving only the steam gear to do the work. Chief disadvantage was tendency to drop into full gear when running, or in some cases to move into back gear, with very serious consequences if running at speed. Trouble was sometimes experienced with the flexible cannections between boiler and steam cylinder giving way, necessitating a great deal of attention at a shed. It was general opinion of drivers who handled engines fitted with steam gears, that they did not like returning to hand gear type.

Gresley, H.N. Presidential Address
The present position of the locomotive building industry. 558-68. + plate (illus. (portrait)
"I think I should remind our mcmbers that this is :an Institution of Locomotive Engineers, not an Institution of Steam Locomotive Engineers; all kinds of locomotives, steam,. oil and electric are our concern.
Gresley accepted that electrification had increased earning capacity on the Southern Railway
He accepted that electric traction in France and Italy was viable in France and Italy where coal was expensive.
Although it was predicted that electricity would become cheaper he believed that improvements in internal combustion and steam traction would continue to make them competitive.
Improvements anticipated in steam

Turbine locomotives so far produced suffer from the same disadvantage as the internal combustion locomotive: high initial cost.
Included an appeal for a locomotive testing station. An elaborate locomotive testing plant existed in America (Gresley did not state at Altoona) and noted the Grunenwald Experimental Department of the German State Railways, and the lack of comparable State support in Britain. Notedt .that Department of Scientific and Industrial Research's activities did not extend to locomotives. Proposed a National Locomotive Testing Plant under DSIR controlled by the Engineering Department of thc Nationa1 Physical Laboratory which already tested models of ships at Teddington. Gresley received support from H. Kelway Bamber, Sir Henry Fowler, Sir Seymour Tritton, Kitson Clark and C.N. Goodall.

Journal No. 82

Sedgfield, P. (Paper 219)
Some notes on unexplained? derailments. 578-602. Disc.: 602-21.
Presented on 10 June 1927 at Buenos Aires, chaired by W.P. Deakin
Experience gained in Uruguay, although this is not stated, but paper presented in Argentina: criticism of the diamond frame bogie for freight vehicles. Considerable amount of information on centres of gravity of various vehicles and their contents: sheep, cattle, wool, etc.

Shove, N.A. (Paper No. 220)
Grease lubrication, and notes on the working of locomotives in Canada and the United States. 625-43. Disc.: 643-59.
Shove had visited the two major Candian railroads and examined the two major railroads (New York Central and Pennsylvania) which entered New York to study locomotive pooling which at that time was being considered for railways in India.. As well as describing grease lubrication, Shove discussed the pooling of locomotives, the design of running sheds, turntables (three-point type), lighting, welding, machine tools, spray cleaning, ash handling and coaling. Power operated fire doors as supplied by the Franklin Co., rocking grates, ashpans, "King" metallic packing and Duplex automatic stokers. Boiler feed pumps were favoured over injectors. Roller bearings were fitted to express engines. Only one booster equipped locomotive was encountered. J.D. Rogers (643-4) contributed his own experience with grease lubrication. A.C. Carr (644-5) contrasted his experience in India and queried how white metal was not used in American bearings; the lack of coal measurements for individual locomotives was also of interest. C.N. Goodall (645-6), as a locomotive manufacturer was particularly interested in automtic stokers and boosters. W.A. Lelean (646-8) considered that grease lubrication aided pooling, by relieving the driver from the responsibility for oiling. He noted that the new standard Indian locomotives used labyrinth packing. He referred to the Great Western method of exhausting ashes from the smokebox instead of dropping them into a pit. But he considered that the automatic stoking equipment was far too heavy. W. Cyril Williams (648-9) noted that in South Africa a grease-lubricated engine had run the 616 miles between Johannesberg and Beaufort West three times without attention. J. Clayton (649-51) considered that the adoption of grease lubrication led to increased wear of the bearing surfaces. He was also critical of American locomotive design philosophy considering it to be based on a collection of parts bought from propietary firms. W.J. Tomes (651-2) accepted the concept of grease lubrication, and was also eager to adopt spray cleaning. E.C. Poultney (652-3) noted the very high cylinder horsepower developed on American locomotives and cited Metcalfe's "very good" paper on exhaust steam injectors. H. Holcroft (653-4) was antagonistic towards grease lubrication because of the difficulty in starting at low temperatures; the high running temperatures accepted in bearings. He was also against mechanical stokers (British coal was of high quality) and roundhouses for the space demanded for them. Gresley chaired the meeting and concluded the discussion (655-6): he had made experiments with grease lubrication but had not been impressed, but the locomotives had run hot and coal consumption had increased. He had found German manufactured cast iron packing to be excellent on superheated locomotives. He considered that only locomotives burning in excess of 5,000 lbs per hour require mechanical stokers.

Visit to Airdale Foundry, Leeds, November 4th, 1927. 660-1+ folding diagram (sectional drawing) and illus..
Kitson-Still locomotive. Sectional diagram was from Rly Gaz. Gresley was present on the visit and thanked Kitson Clark. See also account in Locomotive Mag., 1927, 33, 374.

Musgrave, G.A.
Address by the Chairman of the North Eastern Centre: Institution's welfare and progress. 664-86.
Relatively little of the Address was given over to an examination of the Instiution per se: most covered issuse which the speaker considered to be pertinent at the time. Firstly there was an examination of the increasing weight of locomotives on the LNER shown by a diagram which extended from Locomotion No. 1 at 11 tons via a Jenny Lind-type 2-2-2 at 33 tons; a Stirling 4-2-2 single  (72 tons); an Ivatt large Atlantic (112 tons); a Gresley Pacific (1149 tons) and P1 2-8-2 (151 tons) to the Beyer Garratt at 178 tons.

Topics covered included superheating (accessibility and reliability), cylinder lubrication (hydrostatic versus mechanical lubricators), the need for footplate crews to ensure that steam was admitted to the steam chest whilst coasting to ensure that grit did not enre the cylinders.

Gresley (682-5) responded at length and this is reproduced in full on the Gresley page as it says much about Gresley's design philosophy towards internal combustion locomotives, his response to the Schmidt high pressure boiler (to be exploted by Fowler in Fury), and to his coolness towards electric traction.